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General Discussion: Super Virtuoso Demos

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written by: vanMeerdervoort

haha @0beron, great :)

written by: vanMeerdervoort

Thu, 10 May 2012 15:55:31 +0100 BST

Hi all!

Let me start to say I do not mean to offend anyone who has posted videos playing the eigenharp! I really like most of them. They convinced me to buy one. I was just wondering...

I play the EWI for a while now and right before purchasing one I was able to watch a huge amount of demo vids with all kinds of players who did awsomely virtuoso demos.

Most Eigenharp demos I find display some of its possibilities, but mostly contain simple rythms, simple bass or synthesizer lines. Even the bits I could find by Jordan Rudess were mere 'classical' practise vids. They're perfect for showing what the instrument can do basically, but they mostly don't have a "whoa thats awsome" factor in a musical sense. Where are the whoopy 'guitar' solo's, smooth jazz licks, flabberghasting Bach renditions?

Is that because:

* I'm not looking in the right place
* the instrument is too new to have produced true virtuoso players

Or something else? Again please don't take this the wrong way, I don't mean any disrespect or disdain. I just bought an Alpha (its on the way) and I'm looking for those Yeah that's what I wanna be able to do too! vids ;)

regards

Vincent


written by: 0beron

Thu, 10 May 2012 16:25:52 +0100 BST

Well compared to the EWI which has been around in some form or other since the 80s, and arguably is a more direct transfer in technique terms from a saxophone, then yes I would say the eigenharp is too new.

If you're after some impressive classical stuff I can recommend Antonio's video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5Eeg2FJtlY
and more recently Joel's: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IA94nDuc8dc

If you believe Malcolm Gladwell, it takes 10,000 hours of cumulative practise to achieve mastery of something, which equates to about 1.14 years. I bought my Alpha quite early (end of 2009) and I'd have had to play it over 8 hours every day to get to 10,000 hours :)


written by: john

Thu, 10 May 2012 16:45:20 +0100 BST

Hi Vincent

I think your second observation is probably the closest to the truth. The Eigenharps really do require very different techniques from any other instruments and have to be practiced in the same way in order to acquire them. To become truly virtuoso in any instrument it's commonly reckoned to take between 5000 and 10000 hours of practice. Even playing fours hours a day there just aren't enough days that have elapsed since they were launched on the world to start seeing such players emerge. It will take time.

There are many promising signs though - every year that passes sees the overall standard of playing increasing. Our earliest player, Dave Kemp, has become very technically proficient and can now sight read quite creditably straight from paper to instrument, as well as playing at speed etc. Even then, he's probably had less than a thousand hours of practice, so there's a long way potentially that he, and all other players, can go. I think it's significant that some of the earliest players are currently the best, it really does point to practice being the key. Which shouldn't surprise any of us really.

As an aside, I have noticed a thing that sometimes happens when people acquire Eigenharps, which is that I think they expect them to be much easier to play than traditional instruments. I beg you to consider this carefully as you start with your Alpha. People can be quite (sometimes very) disappointed when this turns out not to be true. There have been quite a few people who I suspect have thought that an Eigenharp would be some kind of 'silver bullet' that would make them good musicians with only a small amount of practice. They often practice for just twenty or thirty hours then just give up. Rather than practice harder and learn the instrument they often then segue off into a series of complaints about the technology, or how it would all be ok if it just 'worked this way instead' or was better documented despite what is now a very large amount of documentation. The Eigenharps aren't like that though - the very same expressiveness and flexibility that make them so compelling also requires a lot of practice to play well, in just the same way the guitar, violin of saxophone do. Things like documentation and software are near irrelevant (and constitute more of a distraction than help in that respect to be honest) if what you want to do is play and practice rather than tinker.

The other thing to remember is that this is a whole new instrument. The techniques, key layouts, setups, the whole thing are still being developed by players as they go along. It's a journey, and a very interesting one. This is both daunting (there just aren't any Jimi Hendrix's to follow yet, as you so rightly point out) and exhilarating.

Nice to have you on board - I hope you enjoy the process. You never know, you could be our Charlie Parker or Robert Johnson. Just have to sell your soul to the devil, or acquire a terrible heroin habit.


John


written by: stbohne

Thu, 10 May 2012 17:48:20 +0100 BST

To add a few example videos:
In my personal opinion the Battlestar Galactica Cylon theme from Geert is the video that best shows how an Eigenharp can be used. And he doesn't even use the drum keys or the arranger.
The videos from BangStrokeBlow, the Eigenharp band, are also pretty good.


written by: mikemilton

Thu, 10 May 2012 18:25:04 +0100 BST

Hey, Vincent; congratulations on your Alpha.

I've had mine nearly 2 years (hmmm... perhaps even a bit more) and I'd say I'm at the point where I can play some things adequately a few things well but nothing better than that. I play wX5/7 well and lap steel perhaps a bit better (but I've had a WX since they were introduced.)

I'm a bit older and I find that means more time is needed to learn a piece and for practice to kick in.

Here is my advice to you: spend a lot of time initially with a simple sound (like piano) in split one, chromatic tuning. If you can internalize the key layout, you will be able to play anything.

Try a few positions (did you get the harness?)

For fun or for a break from practice, pick a simple tuning (a major, minor, blues, wholetone or something) and try improvising.

Find some drumloops for the music you like (I've got a good set of blues loops) and set up the drummer to give you some percussion for improvising (much more fun than a metronome). If you have jamtracks for your EWI, try that too.

Branch out into more expressive sounds fairly early so you train yourself to be able to play cleanly with lots of pitch/yaw/pressure dialed in (this is actually quite difficult but the small variations bring a lot of liveness to your sound).

I'm not sure what you have for your EWI but I've never got my VL to work well. Mr Sax is good, but I use the keyboard setup with breath for expression and a bit of tweaking. I should really have another run at this


written by: carvingCode

Thu, 10 May 2012 19:35:51 +0100 BST

Do we even know what 'virtuoso playing' is for the Eigenharp? For traditional instruments, it likely equates to fast, masterful playing. With the Eigenharp, I imagine other things are going to come into play that will supersede what may be considered virtuoso ability.

Virtuoso EIgenharp play includes the mastery of the keys (all 3D), the ribbon strip, and the breath pipe. It also probably should include mastery of musically using the unique capabilities of the instrument, i.e.: splits, simultaneous access to multiple sounds (samplers, VST, etc.). Not to mention the Arranger.

I'm not sure what a virtuoso Eigenharp player is?

(I do understand what the OP was asking for. There are many videos of Eigenharp, but not many including Eigenharps being played by well known, world class musicians.)

Randy


written by: vanMeerdervoort

Fri, 11 May 2012 05:05:13 +0100 BST

Hey all, thanks for your extensive replies! I appreciate the fact that the instrument is so new that those many thousands of hours of practise simply could not have been done by anyone yet. Actually I think its pretty awsome since indeed nothing is set to stone yet.

What would be a virtouso player? Thinking of it I think your'e right, Randy. Just because the Eigenharp is so new and different and we dont have, well, really established examples to compare to its hard to say. Its quite a journey really isnt it?

@mike I have the VL70 m with turbo for my ewi and quite happy with it althou I still have a lot to learn there. As for the Alpha i think I got the complete package apart from basestation Pro. Cant wait until it arrives!

Hmm whats a virtuoso Eigenharp player? Hehe. Thinking some more...


written by: mikemilton

Fri, 11 May 2012 18:41:46 +0100 BST

@Vincent - great, even more choices for playing position!

I too have a VL70 but without the turbo chip (I do have the Patchman patches tho). I also managed to find a VL1m.

Many of us are also on G+ if you are interested. There is a hangout most Mondays


written by: vanMeerdervoort

Tue, 15 May 2012 10:17:39 +0100 BST

@mike, will check out G+, it's about time anyway. Its great to see such an active community :)

If you ever get the chance I can absolutely recommend the turbo chip, I've fooled a lot of people already with the amount of realism the chip adds to the vl70 :)


written by: 0beron

Tue, 15 May 2012 10:34:19 +0100 BST

I've been after the turbo VL70m for a while, but Matt won't ship them outside the US are there any US based players who would be willing to buy one and ship it to me in the UK?


written by: mikemilton

Tue, 15 May 2012 11:28:45 +0100 BST

hmmmm..... but the turbo chips just implement patches in ROM that are available separately, right? I do agree that the patches are quite good!


written by: 0beron

Tue, 15 May 2012 11:30:42 +0100 BST

So I could get the patches and load them onto a stock VL70m bought in the UK? Would that involve me finding a floppy drive to run the editor? I'd like to keep my non-Turbo VL70m as well, so buying a preprogrammed turbo version seems best.


written by: vanMeerdervoort

Tue, 15 May 2012 12:57:08 +0100 BST

Hi 0beron,

if you own a vl70 (any, a stock UK one works fine) you only have to open it, replace the chip that's inside with the one you receive from matt.

I'ts very easy to do really, almost like replacing PC ram memory. Just pluck the old one out and gently put the new one in the slot.

The internal banks automatically get replaced with Matt's versions. There's a useful manual inclided with the chip, no hassle at all :)

I sound like a commercial don't I? I bought my VL on e-bay from someone in Japan and ordered the chip through patchman website.

-Vincent


written by: 0beron

Tue, 15 May 2012 13:17:24 +0100 BST

Hmm, looks like I'll have to go that route anyway - Patchman have no VL70ms left anyhow. I found a 2nd hand one in the UK.


written by: mikemilton

Tue, 15 May 2012 14:00:28 +0100 BST

"The TURBO VL chip includes tons of amazing new sounds, the very best Voices selected from the Patchman Music VL70-m Volumes 1 and 2 recently optimized, as well as improved versions of the best of the factory presets."

So, you might be missing tweaked factory presets if you order Vol 1& 2.

Note that they wil ship the chip (only) anywhere in the world if you are comfortable with swapping an eprom chip


written by: vanMeerdervoort

Wed, 16 May 2012 19:06:10 +0100 BST

I actually found this one which I feel comes close to what I mean :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xRCn1nFukI


written by: MarkPowell

Wed, 16 May 2012 20:19:03 +0100 BST

0beron said:
Hmm, looks like I'll have to go that route anyway - Patchman have no VL70ms left anyhow. I found a 2nd hand one in the UK.


Hi Robin,
If you go down that route I'd be inclined to pay the extra few quid for an IC puller if you don't already have one. It'll avoid bending the legs on the old chip when you remove it and make it much easier to get back in further down the line if need be. I'd offer to send you mine and you post it back, but it'd probably be cheaper for you to just buy one.

Cheers, Mark.


written by: 0beron

Wed, 16 May 2012 22:57:04 +0100 BST

Turns out the unit I bought already has the turbo chip installed. There's a few hitches, it seems the effect settings are scrambled so some of the presets don't sound correct, but there's some technical info on the windworks blog that looks like it might fix that.


written by: carvingCode

Thu, 17 May 2012 00:36:54 +0100 BST

Ok. Now that this has evolved into a EWI thread... Let me mention the great refill for Reason for wind synth. It's called Cyclone.

This was developed by a fellow that plays EWI and is finely tuned for breath control.

Well worth checking out. I love the responsiveness of the patches.

Randy


written by: 0beron

Thu, 17 May 2012 01:48:56 +0100 BST

Ooops, sorry for the hijack. I got my problem fixed - had to run the factrory reset to clear some buffers in the VL70s on board memory (not the patchman PROM which is permanent), then also find the right parameter for the pitch bend range control (the one that was setup right on my old unit, by me, once, about 10 years ago, that i'd forgotten all about.)

Btw, first impressions of the (now working) turbo VL: OMG, why on earth didn't I buy one of these earlier!!



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