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Alpha: Horizontal layout

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written by: NothanUmber

Sure, hopefully it works (otherwise just ask).
Presumably the best way to show the possibilities would be to learn pieces well enough that it's worthwile to record them. Did not have the necessary practice continuity to reach a musically pleasing, beyond-technological-interesting level, want to work on that... Can show technical demos (scales, concepts etc.) if desired though.

Greetings,
NothanUmber

written by: prstorms

Wed, 12 Oct 2011 02:01:52 +0100 BST

Moving this discussion from the previous highjacked thread (sorry)... I'm interested in the 5-octave horizontal layout described by NothanUmber, but not quite clear how to pull that off with the alpha. Would some very patient type like to take me through it? Please imagine that I have no idea how to program or use Belcanto (which is pretty close to true).

Many thanks!
Pat


written by: NothanUmber

Wed, 12 Oct 2011 08:08:59 +0100 BST

tripple post (sorry, Firefox went berserk...)


written by: NothanUmber

Wed, 12 Oct 2011 08:08:16 +0100 BST

double post


written by: NothanUmber

Wed, 12 Oct 2011 08:10:16 +0100 BST

Hi,

presumably it would be best if someone with an Alpha adapts the script (I could do it based on assumptions but I couldn't test it).
If you want I can give you a short introduction (e.g. via Google+ Hangout) about playing techniques and how you can make your life easier (e.g. you can use the inherent 6-6 pattern of courses 1+3 and 2+4 to immediately see how to play scales etc.)

Greetings,
NothanUmber


written by: keyman

Wed, 12 Oct 2011 14:30:06 +0100 BST

Hi Pat, NothanUmber...

I've bin following this tread and would be most interested in helping (with my ALPHA) and also try the Horizontal layout, after all this is one off many great asset the "harp's" have; lately i'm fond of every possibility imaginable...

Time permitting, or other ideas, like the G+ hangout, I would like to be part off, and dive in.

keyman


written by: NothanUmber

Wed, 12 Oct 2011 20:23:26 +0100 BST

Hi keyman&Pat,

@keyman: thanks for offering to help out with testing and adapting, you are welcome to join in any idea exchanging hangouts - or whatever :)

Here an adapted script that "might" work for the Alpha - just loaded the standard Alpha 1 setup and did a short investigation how the scale talker is set up there.
As said I could not test anything so chances that something does not work as expected are pretty high. Especially check the assumptions list and adapt the script if those should proove to be wrong.
Additionally I optimized the GBevin user scale - without testing on my Tau ;) Normally the continuation of the number sequence "should" automatically be adapted...
Is there a scheme to do a similar auto-adjusting number sequence for the horizontal tuning? I definitely wanted to have the low notes below and the high ones above but EigenD counts upwards if you don't explicitly write down all key tunings (having high->low tuning from top->bottom is very helpful for the horizontal layout as fast melody lines and per-key vibrato are easier to play in the upper half while chords are easier in the lower one - and usually accompanying chords are below the melody..)
If you have some questions don't hesitate to ask. If everything works as expected we can give a short explanation to Pat how to apply everything on his setup - won't be difficult then.

Greetings,
NothanUmber

User Scales.txt:

[ZaPPZion chromatic]
; used for a layout with 3x5 blocks of chromatic keys. The blocks have a relative tuning of an octave
intervals= 0 1 2 12

[horizontal chromatic]
; intended for the "horizontal" chromatic layout that uses 24 rows that have a relative tuning of a major 3rd and contain 4 chromatically tuned keys each
intervals= 92 88 84 80 76 72 68 64 60 56 52 48 44 40 36 32 28 24 20 16 12 8 4 0

[GBevin chromatic]
; when used with a course offset of 4 semitones this scale can be used to mimik the 4x5 blocks layout used by Geert Bevin
intervals= 0 1 2 3 20

[17-tone equal temperament]
;This is the 17-tone equal temperament scale. If the intervals of your scale do not all fit on one line, you need to indent your line by;putting at least one space or tab at the beginning of the line.
intervals=0 0.7059 1.4118 2.1177 2.8236 3.5295 4.2354 4.9413 5.6472 6.3531 7.0588
7.7649 8.4708 9.1767 9.8826 10.5885 11.2944 12


description
use scale control keys 6-11 in kgroup 1 to chose 3 different kinds of chromatic key layouts (for Alpha):

6: horizontal
7: Wicki 1
8: Wicki 2
9: Wicki 3
10: GBevin: 4x5 blocks
11: ZaPPZion: 3x5 blocks
13-20: standard scales

#assumptions:
# 1) keys 6-11 in kgroup 1 are not already occupied in the scale chooser mode
# if assumption is wrong: find free keys :) In the worst case replace the existing scales on keys 13-20 if you nonetheless do not use these
# 2) mapping of user scales to user scale numbers is as following (can be checked via "eigenbrowser hey scale manager scale browse"):
# user 1 => 17-tone equal temperament
# user 2 => GBevin chromatic
# user 3 => ZaPPZion chromatic
# user 4 => horizontal chromatic
# if assumption is wrong: the "scale to user X set" phrases below have to be adapted

script
empty join
scale talker 1 listen
kgroup 1 listen
interpreter listen

all phrase cancel

#horizontal chromatic
scale to user 4 when 6 set
" scale talker 1 hey 6 to 1 from 2 colour ify " when 6 called 100 do
course 2 offset to 1 semitone when 6 set
course 3 offset to 1 semitone when 6 set
course 4 offset to 1 semitone when 6 set
course 5 offset to 1 semitone when 6 set

#Wicki chromatic
scale to whole tone when 7 set
" scale talker 1 hey 7 to 1 from 2 colour ify " when 7 called 100 do
course 2 offset to 5 semitone when 7 set
course 3 offset to 5 semitone when 7 set
course 4 offset to 5 semitone when 7 set
course 5 offset to 5 semitone when 7 set

#Wicki chromatic 2
scale to whole tone when 8 set
" scale talker 1 hey 8 to 1 from 2 colour ify " when 8 called 100 do
course 2 offset to 7 semitone when 8 set
course 3 offset to 7 semitone when 8 set
course 4 offset to 7 semitone when 8 set
course 5 offset to 7 semitone when 8 set

#Wicki chromatic 3
scale to whole tone when 9 set
" scale talker 1 hey 9 to 1 from 2 colour ify " when 9 called 100 do
course 2 offset to 1 semitone when 9 set
course 3 offset to 1 semitone when 9 set
course 4 offset to 1 semitone when 9 set
course 5 offset to 1 semitone when 9 set

#GBevin chromatic
scale to user 2 when 10 set
" scale talker 1 hey 10 to 1 from 2 colour ify " when 10 called 100 do
course 2 offset to 4 semitone when 10 set
course 3 offset to 4 semitone when 10 set
course 4 offset to 4 semitone when 10 set
course 5 offset to 4 semitone when 10 set

#ZaPPZion chromatic
scale to user 3 when 11 set
" scale talker 1 hey 11 to 1 from 2 colour ify " when 11 called 100 do
course 2 offset to 3 semitone when 11 set
course 3 offset to 3 semitone when 11 set
course 4 offset to 3 semitone when 11 set
course 5 offset to 3 semitone when 11 set

scale to major when 13 called 1 set
" scale talker 1 hey 13 to 1 from 2 colour ify " when 13 called 100 do
course 2 offset to 4 interval when 13 set
course 3 offset to 4 interval when 13 set
course 4 offset to 4 interval when 13 set
course 5 offset to 4 interval when 13 set

scale to harmonic minor when 14 called 1 set
" scale talker 1 hey 14 to 1 from 2 colour ify " when 14 called 100 do
course 2 offset to 4 interval when 14 set
course 3 offset to 4 interval when 14 set
course 4 offset to 4 interval when 14 set
course 5 offset to 4 interval when 14 set

scale to melodic minor when 15 called 1 set
" scale talker 1 hey 15 to 1 from 2 colour ify " when 15 called 100 do
course 2 offset to 4 interval when 15 set
course 3 offset to 4 interval when 15 set
course 4 offset to 4 interval when 15 set
course 5 offset to 4 interval when 15 set

scale to chromatic when 16 called 1 set
" scale talker 1 hey 16 to 1 from 2 colour ify " when 16 called 100 do
course 2 offset to 4 interval when 16 set
course 3 offset to 4 interval when 16 set
course 4 offset to 4 interval when 16 set
course 5 offset to 4 interval when 16 set

scale to blues when 17 called 1 set
" scale talker 1 hey 17 to 1 from 2 colour ify " when 17 called 100 do
course 2 offset to 4 interval when 17 set
course 3 offset to 4 interval when 17 set
course 4 offset to 4 interval when 17 set
course 5 offset to 4 interval when 17 set

scale to pentatonic when 18 called 1 set
" scale talker 1 hey 18 to 1 from 2 colour ify " when 18 called 100 do
course 2 offset to 4 interval when 18 set
course 3 offset to 4 interval when 18 set
course 4 offset to 4 interval when 18 set
course 5 offset to 4 interval when 18 set

scale to diminished when 19 called 1 set
" scale talker 1 hey 19 to 1 from 2 colour ify " when 19 called 100 do
course 2 offset to 4 interval when 19 set
course 3 offset to 4 interval when 19 set
course 4 offset to 4 interval when 19 set
course 5 offset to 4 interval when 19 set

scale to whole tone when 20 called 1 set
" scale talker 1 hey 20 to 1 from 2 colour ify " when 20 called 100 do
course 2 offset to 4 interval when 20 set
course 3 offset to 4 interval when 20 set
course 4 offset to 4 interval when 20 set
course 5 offset to 4 interval when 20 set

empty join


written by: NothanUmber

Sat, 15 Oct 2011 02:35:50 +0100 BST

Here a link to some internal notes regarding the layouts (somehow technical in some aspects but perhaps interesting for some to get a first impression, testing will give a much better picture though). Not finished yet but a start.
My focus for the evaluation was to find a "general purpose" layout for me, if you can spend the effort then presumably best results are reached by using what matches best for each piece - what might lead to completely different results :)

"chromatic horizontal 3xn layout" which might be interesting for the Alpha is still missing from the script above, never tested it, this should do the trick though:
[horizontal 3xn chromatic]
intervals= 63 60 57 54 51 48 45 42 39 36 33 30 27 24 21 18 15 12 9 6 3 0

#horizontal 3xn chromatic
scale to user 5 when 12 set
" scale talker 1 hey 12 to 1 from 2 colour ify " when 12 called 100 do
course 2 offset to 1 semitone when 12 set
course 3 offset to 1 semitone when 12 set
course 4 offset to 1 semitone when 12 set
course 5 offset to 1 semitone when 12 set

Greetings,
NothanUmber


written by: keyman

Fri, 14 Oct 2011 02:36:12 +0100 BST

Time permitting... Now I'm checking /diving in!

Not the easiest area of Belcanto to play with - SCALE manager and talker kgroup 1... ultra scale talker 101... at least in the ALPHA setup

you're #assumptions:
# 1) keys 6-11 in kgroup 1 are not already occupied in the scale chooser mode

On the ALPHA - SCALES (k13 to 20) and TONICS (1 to 12) so no room there...
stuck

My Google+

keyman


written by: NothanUmber

Fri, 14 Oct 2011 08:36:50 +0100 BST

Would it be possible to introduce a new submenu with a new scale talker? As far as I remember Dave showed how to do custom submenus in one of the seminars. (The new "scales" are nonetheless not scales per se but more layouts that are hardwired to the chromatic scale by using user scales+course offsets to achieve that - what e.g. makes it impossible to play those layouts with non-chromatic scales atm. When I have Workbench I'll build a setup with "real" layouts that can be played with arbitrary scales by rearranging the courses - then all the other keys also have to be remapped though, otherwise the menus are misplaced - which is difficult to investigate without Workbench)

Greetings,
NothanUmber


written by: NothanUmber

Fri, 14 Oct 2011 09:50:57 +0100 BST

As this submenu thing would need additional investigation here a short description for an intermediate solution how to get just the horizontal 4xn layout working:

* Copy the following text at the top of your Eigenlabs\Scale Manager\User Scales.txt file which resides in your user's folder (to test: perhaps 22 numbers should be sufficient as there are "only" 22x5 playing keys on the Alpha, added 26 here to be sure that the 4 semitones course offset don't lead to a "gap" at the bottom end):

[horizontal chromatic]
intervals= 100 96 92 88 84 80 76 72 68 64 60 56 52 48 44 40 36 32 28 24 20 16 12 8 4 0

* Open both the EigenBrowser and the EigenCommander
* type the following Belcanto phrase into the EigenCommander window:

eigenbrowser hey scale manager scale browse

* Look at the EigenBrowser window, you should find the "horizontal chromatic" scale somewhere at the bottom, presumably it is mapped to either "user 1" or "user 2". Remember the user number.
* Now type the following Belcanto phrases:

kgroup 1 hey scale to user X set

replace X with 1 or 2 (or whatever number the horizontal user scale has in your setup)
Continue to type Belcanto phrases:

kgroup 1 hey course 2 offset to 1 semitone set
kgroup 1 hey course 3 offset to 1 semitone set
kgroup 1 hey course 4 offset to 1 semitone set
kgroup 1 hey course 5 offset to 1 semitone set


* Your Alpha should have a horizontal layout now
* Use the transpose keys at the bottom to tune the keygroup in a comfortable tonal range
* save your setup as a "horizontal layout" user setup
* if you want to go back to the standard layout just load the standard setup again

You can use the infos from the script above to build similar setups for the other custom layouts that you might want to try out.

Have fun,
NothanUmber


written by: NothanUmber

Sat, 15 Oct 2011 02:43:58 +0100 BST

Made a better understandable (and hopefully this time less flawed...) overview of the layouts. Also removed my "rating" because it was too much tailored towards my use case. As many people use the instrument completely different everybody should draw his or her own conclusions. Now only the raw numbers and patterns remain :)
Link to PDF.

Greetings,
NothanUmber


written by: keyman

Sat, 15 Oct 2011 05:14:54 +0100 BST

Hi, NothanUmber
Huge thanks for staying on this, I'm sure everyone can follow with such detail !!
In the end I did come up with the "possible" intermediate solution here...
I'm evaluating things...

keyman


written by: prstorms

Tue, 18 Oct 2011 02:34:02 +0100 BST

"Everyone" here's going to have to take a good hard look at it, but I greatly appreciate the effort!

Pat


written by: NothanUmber

Tue, 18 Oct 2011 17:11:22 +0100 BST

Sure, hopefully it works (otherwise just ask).
Presumably the best way to show the possibilities would be to learn pieces well enough that it's worthwile to record them. Did not have the necessary practice continuity to reach a musically pleasing, beyond-technological-interesting level, want to work on that... Can show technical demos (scales, concepts etc.) if desired though.

Greetings,
NothanUmber



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