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Software: MIDI Drivers (bypass need to always load EigenD)

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written by: ChrisPenner

Yes I have been experiencing crashes and I have been sending details via the bug-reporter, it's a good tool.

Recently I searched for alternatives to LoopBe1 (I don't really feel like shelling out $20 for Be30) and I found MIDI Yoke (http://www.midiox.com/index.htm)

It's an old XP and earlier program, but it installed fine even on my 64 bit Win7, it runs fine, IIRC it provides 8 ports, and the midi feedback detection is more sophisticated; when it detects a lot of traffic it sends a specific obscure midi message through the port and then listens for it in the feedback loop. This way it doesn't shut down on you just for sending a lot of MIDI, essentially fixing the problem with LoopBe1. I'll be using Midi Yoke now and I haven't found a downside yet, but I'll keep my eyes out for it.

Thanks,
Chris

written by: ChrisPenner

Fri, 29 Jul 2011 07:05:45 +0100 BST

Hi Eigenlabs, I'll be using my Eigenharp for a lot of MIDI related things, primarily because I have a very nice set-up for my performances in my DAW already, and I'd like to keep most things centered around that host. I've kludged together a solution using LoopBe1 for now, but I'd love to see some drivers released that allow the use of the Eigenharp as a MIDI controller without needing to boot up EigenD. It would save on CPU resources, save time, and make it easier to use in this way. Plus it would leave my audio interfaces free for my DAW.

Thanks for considering my feature request.
Regards,
Chris


written by: john

Fri, 29 Jul 2011 08:44:23 +0100 BST

Hi Chris

A dedicated virtual MIDI port for Windows is already on the list for 2.0. As you are probably aware this is not needed on MacOS as the operating system supports it natively. It is quite difficult to implement on Windows (requiring a driver to be written and installed, a process involving little code but a lot of hassle), but we will probably be putting it into an early version in the 2.X series.

John


written by: ChrisPenner

Sat, 30 Jul 2011 00:35:43 +0100 BST

Great to hear, thanks. This will be very helpful for my performances. I'm also glad to hear that you've begun to cater a bit to Windows patrons.


written by: john

Sat, 30 Jul 2011 10:50:15 +0100 BST

Hi Chris

There seems to be a bit of a perception amongst our Windows customers that it is some sort of second tier for us. This is very much not true, and I'd like to address whatever it is that has lead to that idea.

Whilst it's true we released EigenD for Windows quite a while after EigenD for MacOS, we actually spend a lot of time working on Windows and have done since 2008. The Pico has been fully supported for well over a year now, and Alpha and Tau's now run fine with the exception of the headphone output which is due for inclusion in 1.4. We work on MacOS and Windows bugs at about the same rate, which given that the majority of our customers use MacOS, I think this is very fair to our Windows users.

The biggest issue with Windows is that it is a much less homogeneous environment running a hugely wider variety of hardware. This makes developing and testing for it a lot slower than for MacOS and also means that some of the bugs we get reported are very hard to reproduce. If a MacOS bug is reported to us we normally have a hardware version identical or at least very close to the originating system which makes reproducing and finding it possible. The same cannot be said of Windows and as a small company it is unlikely we'll ever be able to afford the many, many machines that we'd need to keep installed and running to make this come true. I suspect that as a consequence of this Windows development (in particular bug fixing) will always lag MacOS a little. Jim Chapman, our Technical Director and head of the software team develops mainly on Windows these days (he made himself do this to make sure it got done and tested well) and you will find that we fix Windows bugs pretty much as fast as MacOS ones as a result, if we can reproduce them, which is the nub.

The virtual MIDI port issue here is a particular case in point about Windows development. On MacOS this is a non issue, we don't actually have to do anything to make it happen as the audio/MIDI system is generally better thought out than the Windows equivalent (as is to be expected really given Apple's prevalence in he media world). On Windows we have to write a device driver, test it extensively or as far as we can with as many different systems as we can find and then deal with all the driver signing and installation hassle (which if you've written a Windows driver you'll know is often more trouble than writing it in the first place) and then test that installation process, which is also very time consuming and error prone. This feature has not been left out of EigenD because it's for Windows users, its been left out so far because its a lot of work for a feature that has only been asked for by a small number of customers and that can (albeit badly and with some hassle and cost) be dealt with by a third party product, Loopbe. It is on the list though, it's just that we have a lot of big things to get done for 2.0 that have to be done or it can't be released, and it's just not as important as they are - it's lack of immediate priority has little to do with it being a Windows only feature.

Anyway, rant over! Sorry about that but I've heard several Windows based people recently imply that we don't care about them and don't work on Windows enough. Given the amount of time Windows only issues eat up here I don't think that's a reasonable point of view.

We will hopefully get a virtual MIDI port into 2.0 for the Autumn, I know Jim wants it, and you are quite correct, without it one has to pay for, install and configure LoopBe, which is very irritating.

John


written by: ChrisPenner

Sun, 31 Jul 2011 05:37:36 +0100 BST

Thanks for taking the time for that response, I apologize if I sounded annoyed, but I'm actually just thankful that it's working on Windows. I understand the difficulty of working with all sorts of different hardware on windows (and I've definitely had my fair share of crashes so far, but I understand it's a process), keep up the good work!

As a side note I've actually managed to get LoopBe1 (free version) to work quite nicely with my DAW, unfortunately I cannot use the looping functions of the eigenharp or LoopBe1 thinks it detects a midi feedback loop and shuts down. But for using one midi channel at a time it works fine. One thing though is that I found little official documentation on setting it up and so pretty much had to mess around a bit to get it to work. "Jack" on the other hand for running audio I haven't managed to figure out yet :(

Edit: Scratch that, LoopBe1 is not muting the signal randomly, not reliable for live performance.


written by: NothanUmber

Sun, 31 Jul 2011 14:02:24 +0100 BST

LoopBe30 allows to disable feedback detection and more than one connection. Works reliable on Windows 7, does what it's supposed to do.
What do you mean with "LoopBe1 is not muting the signal randomly", are noteoff events dropped? (did not occur to me yet - make sure that you send matching note on and note offs on the same channel for multitimbral instruments)

Greetings,
NothanUmber


written by: john

Sun, 31 Jul 2011 14:31:59 +0100 BST

Hi Chris

NothnUmber is correct, LoopBe 30 does allow one to disable the feedback detection (which is needed due to the amount of data the Eigenharps produce) - if you do this you should find that it works satisfactorily. There's a demo version that works for an hour on the website, after that you have to pay twenty dollars or so for it. You can also turn down the MIDI output data rate in EigenD by using the data decimation parameter in the MIDI output control matrix. This is a less satisfactory solution as it reduces the responsiveness of the Eigeharps accordingly, but should make the free LoopBe behave itself..

BTW, if you are still experiencing any kind of crashes with 1.3 we'd really appreciate it if you'd use the bug reporter when you restart (it will send us the log of the just failed session) with any comments about what you were doing at the time. We're nearly done stabilising 1.3 and don't have many outstanding showstopper bugs left - if you do have crashes we'd really like to know about them so that we can have a chance of fixing them. Your help in this would be greatly appreciated, our Windows userbase is still quite small and some bugs are probably out there that have simply never been reported to us, which makes them rather hard to fix..


John


written by: ChrisPenner

Sun, 31 Jul 2011 20:50:56 +0100 BST

Yes I have been experiencing crashes and I have been sending details via the bug-reporter, it's a good tool.

Recently I searched for alternatives to LoopBe1 (I don't really feel like shelling out $20 for Be30) and I found MIDI Yoke (http://www.midiox.com/index.htm)

It's an old XP and earlier program, but it installed fine even on my 64 bit Win7, it runs fine, IIRC it provides 8 ports, and the midi feedback detection is more sophisticated; when it detects a lot of traffic it sends a specific obscure midi message through the port and then listens for it in the feedback loop. This way it doesn't shut down on you just for sending a lot of MIDI, essentially fixing the problem with LoopBe1. I'll be using Midi Yoke now and I haven't found a downside yet, but I'll keep my eyes out for it.

Thanks,
Chris



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