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General Discussion: Questions about connecting a pico to pedals and an ipad

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written by: Phillippal

Thank you very much for the advice and opinions. So I have given up on the idea of using the ipad's synth and effects apps with my eigenharp for now. Nonetheless, I have been exploring what other touchscreen options there are that will allow me to make rapid and easy changes between whatever sounds I choose to use in the moment (I am not a big fan of laptops as I prefer a screen that I can move around and mount wherever I wish, and I also don't want my head buried in a laptop if I am ever to perform with the eigenharp). From what I can find out, there appears to be three options:

1) Connecting a portable touchscreen monitor and to a Mac mini. However, none of the portable monitors I have found seem to receive favourable reviews (apart from the prohibitively-expensive Wacom Cintiq), and/or are not specifically for macs.
2) A laptop/tablet hybrid. However, I think I would prefer to stick to mac.
3) Using an ipad as a monitor with the Air Display app. Although this is still not ideal, it seems to be the best option for what I want to do.

Now to make some purchases...

written by: Phillippal

Sat, 8 Nov 2014 08:29:08 +0000 GMT

I was wondering if someone could advise me on the best possible setup for my needs.

Firstly, I would like to connect my eigenharp pico to my ipad (I'm aware I would still need to use a computer for this). I know there have been posts on this before, but I've read them all and am still confused as to the exact hardware requirements (my technical knowledge is pretty woeful). From what I gather, I will need:
- an audio interface
- a cable for laptop to audio interface (usb to midi?)
- a camera connection kit
- a cable from the audio interface to the camera connection kit
- hardware to get the audio out of my ipad and possibly connected to a PA system (although I'm not sure what hardware I would need for this)
I have seen the iconnect midi being mentioned frequently. Would this serve as an audio interface?
I also recall reading someone mentioning they use the irig instead of the camera connection kit. Is this a preferable alternative? What would I need for this setup?

Secondly, I like the idea of being able to access different effects and to alter their parameters whilst improvising. If I assign volume to touch sensitivity and pitch to up/down key motion, that leaves just side-to-side motion for another effect. There's also breath control, although I was wondering if it might be an idea to have this option affect the intensity of the effect. Therefore, I was thinking about using pedals to provide more effects.

I've read about bluetooth operated pedals and found that those by Airturn seemed to receive more favourable reviews than others: http://airturn.com/bluetooth-pedals. I also found out that there may be midi pedals available. If I went for this option, would I connect the pedals to the audio interface? Does anyone have any experience or opinions on this?

Thanks in advance and apologies for my ignorance. I have spent countless hours on the internet trying to gain some clarity, but to no avail.


written by: Phillippal

Sat, 8 Nov 2014 08:34:25 +0000 GMT

Also, I am a sax player and might like the option of going between eigenharp and sax during performances. I would like to experiment with ipad app effects for my sax too, using the pedals I mentioned above. Would the best option be for me to connect a microphone for my sax to the same audio interface I'm using to connect my eigenharp to my ipad?


written by: TheTechnobear

Tue, 11 Nov 2014 20:39:22 +0000 GMT

sorry don't own an iconnectmidi, but Geert has been quite complimentary about them in the past, they provide an easy way to connect iPad/computer and other midi gear together.
(im not sure they have an audio input for a microphone though, which you need for your sax, so would need another audio interface for that.)

midi pedals, some have midi din, which could connect to some audio interfaces (including iconnectmidi) , others are usb.
you have to decide how often you want to use it, without the computer powered on.
pedals are, I think, surprisingly useful, as theres quite a few functions you want to execute without removing your hands from the eigenharp e.g. activate recorders.
I dont tend to use a pedal for expression, as I find the eigenharp already has so many options with breath/strips/keys.. but its possible to wire in pedals into eigenD to do this if you wish.

bluetooth, hmm interesting, but not sure… given you already have to have wires for the eigenharp, does being wireless offer much of an advantage?


written by: Phillippal

Wed, 12 Nov 2014 05:05:28 +0000 GMT

Thank you very much for your response.

So what I gather from what you are saying is that I need to check whether the midi pedals have midi in otherwise they will need to be connected to a computer by usb, is that right?

The reason I was looking at the usb ones was that I was hoping to assign effects to them from my ipad. But from what you've said, it sounds like I could also assign effects through eigen d on my computer.

I agree the eigenharp is highly expressive. I would just like to have instant, easy access to several types of effect and the ability to alter their strength/parameters during performance, which is why I though pedals would be the best solution (I would also like to use them for looping etc.). If I assigned pitch bend, volume, and perhaps one effect to the three options for keys, and used the breath controller for either another effect, that means I only have 2 effects to choose from when playing (I am not sure how useful the strip controller is for me if I want to have both hands free to play the keys).

In terms of audio interface, what do you use? Are there any recommendations for one with audio input for my sax?

Thanks again.


written by: Phillippal

Wed, 12 Nov 2014 05:13:37 +0000 GMT

Also, I am still confused about the types of cable I need to buy.

I would find it really helpful if there were a comprehensive list of each piece of equipment needed including cables as well as interfaces etc. I wish I also understood the purpose of each piece of hardware. Geert has previously posted this: http://www.eigenzone.org/2012/11/22/eigenharp-ipad-synth-setup. Although this is very helpful, it doesn't say what cables he uses are, and it tends to give product names rather than state what each part actually is. I tried googling this all, but still can't quite get my head round it!

All help is greatly appreciated. I have had the eigenharp for about a year now but it has gone unused because of the big learning curve I seem to be facing every time I try to do something with it.


written by: TheTechnobear

Wed, 12 Nov 2014 11:09:43 +0000 GMT

Phillippal said:
Also, I am still confused about the types of cable I need to buy.

I would find it really helpful if there were a comprehensive list of each piece of equipment needed including cables as well as interfaces etc. I wish I also understood the purpose of each piece of hardware. Geert has previously posted this: http://www.eigenzone.org/2012/11/22/eigenharp-ipad-synth-setup. Although this is very helpful, it doesn't say what cables he uses are, and it tends to give product names rather than state what each part actually is. I tried googling this all, but still can't quite get my head round it!



I think the issue is, especially with the iPad, the market is changing all the time, and i don't think there is one interface that will do all you want.
I would say as a starting point, if you want to connect your computer to the iPad then you cannot go wrong with a iConnectMidi.

for the sax side, you need to carefully think
do you want to connect it to your computer, or the iPad…
there are quite a few audio inputs for the iPad,
and there are loads of USB audio interfaces for your computer,

… and range from fairly cheap to very expensive.

but I'm not really, the person to advise, as generally, I'm not into using the iPad for this type of application … I know lots are, but its just not for me.


All help is greatly appreciated. I have had the eigenharp for about a year now but it has gone unused because of the big learning curve I seem to be facing every time I try to do something with it.


the danger here, is adding more gear is just going to add to your complexity/learning curve.

personally, i think the iPad is a 'red herring' , Ive got an iPad and have no inclination to use it for this, as there are much better VSTs available for synths and fx, than you will get for the iPad (imho), and i seriously don't think it will 'simplify' using your eigenharp in anyway, in fact its bound to add more complexity (=learning curve).

Id recommend you just sit down, add a few VSTs to the factory setup, save the setup and use it every day, start simple…
this is a 'new instrument', just get used to it, as it is… don't try 'adapting' to your expectations.
seriously, the amount of expression you can get just with the keys is immense, and to get good control over this, and know how to use soft synths with these is a challenge in itself.
then add a midi pedal, any will do (I've a keith mcmillian soft step, but there are loads to choose from) , again this will take some time, to integrate in, but it does add an extra dimension.

another option, to get going… eigenharps support midi
so if you are familiar with a DAW, then just send the midi to your DAW, and do all the audio/midi routing there,
you can always come back to EigenD when your more familiar with the eigenharp, and how you want to use it.
(seriously, many people should do this initially, rather than get confused/frustrated with eigenD)


written by: mikemilton

Wed, 12 Nov 2014 11:38:19 +0000 GMT

It is not clear to me what you are trying to do and the possible solutions differ.

Whatever you do, you will be using the Pico via a computer so from there you can either output audio and use the iPad for effects or you can output MIDI and use the iPad as a sound generator or you could do both.

iconnectMIDI works well for the MIDI side and is comprehensive for all your MIDI uses (USB or DIN, IOS or computer). I have one and can vouch for that. That said, it really isn't something that I use much because it is just simpler to do whatever I want on the computer and the iPad does not bring much (anything?) that adds capability. Also, the solution involves additional complexity that I don't need.

The only time I really use it is to connect my VL1m synth (because it is the best modelling I have for wind instruments) but even then, it would make more sense to just go direct to the VL1 from my WX5

m


written by: Phillippal

Thu, 13 Nov 2014 12:57:13 +0000 GMT

Thank you for the sound advice. I do have a tendency to want to run before I can walk, then end up paralyzed by indecision from all the choices! On the other hand, the reason I bought the eigenharp is because it seemed so versatile. I just hadn't anticipated how hard it would be for me to make use of it.

I was so keen to connect my eigenharp to the ipad because I wanted to have a more portable setup whereby I use a monitor-less Mac mini to power the eigenharp and the ipad as my source of synths and effects. One reason for this is that I would like to be able to change quickly between different sounds and effects, and I find that the touch screen of the ipad is more conducive for this than a laptop. Besides which, after over 8 years of service, my laptop is on death's door, so I was thinking to replace it with the aforementioned Mac mini and an iPad Air (as I use my ipad far more than I do my laptop).

From the sounds of it, I would need separate interfaces if I wish to connect to my ipad both my sax for effects, and my eigenharp (via a computer) for synths as well as effects. So a midi interface like the iconnect and a separate audio interface then. Am I right in thinking I would not be able to connect these to the ipad at the same time?

In terms of getting sound out of the ipad and to a PA system, do I need any particular equipment for that?


written by: john

Thu, 13 Nov 2014 13:18:25 +0000 GMT

There's a lot of good advice on this thread, and of all of it I would tend to agree with Mike. When you want to use an iPad for pro-audio of any description you have to remember that Apple make it very, very difficult (deliberately so for commercial reasons of their own) to interface to. This results in a very non-optimal environment for third party manufacturers - they have to jump through all sorts of weird hoops to try and make interfaces work and the offical Apple sonsored 'correct' way of doing so is simply lnaccessible to all but the largest companies, it's crazily expensive, cumbersome and restrictive. None of this is particularly of interest to you I'm sure, but the end result for you is that it's really awkward to use an iPad in the same way that you use a laptop for music - there is no way, for example, that EigenD could ever use it, or certainly not without extraordinary effort on our part. From the point of view of simplicity (and when playing music, this is always good I think) just using a decent laptop with your Eigenharp is certainly the way to go. Adding in an iPad is certainly not going to make your life simpler in any way, and it will certainly add considerable complexity and consequent unreliability to your setup. If you are technically fluent then this is not really a problem, and people like Geert use iPad's for the availability of some nice softsynths (like Animoog) that only run on that platform, but from the point of view of learning a new instrument, the iPad is just a big extra pile of hassle to get used to really. There really does need to be a compelling reason to use one, and improved usability is very unlikely to be that reason.

Interestingly, I own an iPad, but I find it very irritating for music for a number of reasons, and I only really use it these days to read the paper or run Onsong on stage for lyrics and music. I have a Macbook Air that is near as small and light as an IPad, works really well and I find much more usable for music. Not only will it run full blown Logic if I want, but also Sibelius, it interfaces to all the great pro-audio interfaces and just works with no extra wires or junk. It will also run a lot of great VST/Au softsynths that won't run on an iPad.

John


written by: Phillippal

Wed, 19 Nov 2014 06:37:04 +0000 GMT

Thank you very much for the advice and opinions. So I have given up on the idea of using the ipad's synth and effects apps with my eigenharp for now. Nonetheless, I have been exploring what other touchscreen options there are that will allow me to make rapid and easy changes between whatever sounds I choose to use in the moment (I am not a big fan of laptops as I prefer a screen that I can move around and mount wherever I wish, and I also don't want my head buried in a laptop if I am ever to perform with the eigenharp). From what I can find out, there appears to be three options:

1) Connecting a portable touchscreen monitor and to a Mac mini. However, none of the portable monitors I have found seem to receive favourable reviews (apart from the prohibitively-expensive Wacom Cintiq), and/or are not specifically for macs.
2) A laptop/tablet hybrid. However, I think I would prefer to stick to mac.
3) Using an ipad as a monitor with the Air Display app. Although this is still not ideal, it seems to be the best option for what I want to do.

Now to make some purchases...



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