Forum rss-feed

Forum

General Discussion: Tau vs Alpha

Most Recent

written by: mikemilton

On the key 'issue'

Have a look at the soft threshold. Because people found that they were inadvertently brushing these keys, it was increased. Personally, I prefer the old setting and change it back but you can always just press harder and everything works.

written by: tenorjazz

Mon, 3 Jun 2013 17:49:17 +0100 BST

While I'm gathering the money to afford one of these beautiful instruments I have been trying to identify the differences between the Tau and Alpha.

I have a vision of performing some of the orchestral/synth pieces I have written using the eigenharp as the main instrument.

Going through the various tutorials I can see:
1. More keys on the Alpha
2. The control keys are set up differently
3. Looks like you can do more splits on the Alpha
4. Two ribbon controllers on Alpha vs one on the Tau

So far that's all I can see.

What I can't figure out is:
1. Can I control external midi instruments (Access Virus) or virtual instruments (Spectrasonic's Omnisphere)?
2. Will I be able to sync it with midi (APC 40 running Ableton Live)?

This and any other information on how to make it "play" with other electronic instruments would be appreciated.

I'm leaning towards the Tau because even that is stretching my budget and hope it will work for what I'm trying to do. (dreaming... if I could only afford an ALPHA!!)

Your feedback is greatly appreciated!!!


written by: TheTechnobear

Mon, 3 Jun 2013 19:42:14 +0100 BST

yes , alpha has more keys, 2nd ribbon and also mic input... and of course it looks very different, made of wood etc.
the keys and the software (eigend) are identical on all harps (alpha, tau,pico) - so you can do as many splits on tau, but of course it has less keys, so thats the limit.

id recommend you read about the key layout of eigenharps, so that you can see that notes are repeated, so whats seems like lots of keys does not necessarily mean a wide range - this may or may not matter dependng on your needs, and what you want to play


all have an amazing feeling, due to sensitivity.

important to note, no eigenharp has direct midi output, you need to connect it to a computer via usb - with this, the harp talks to eigend - which supports midi input,output, clock etc
it also supports hosting of vst/au for virtual instruments.




written by: carvingCode

Mon, 3 Jun 2013 19:43:37 +0100 BST

Answer is 'yes' to both questions. ( I MIDI sync the Eigenharp to Live.)

Both instruments have 2 MIDI outs in the default setups. You can send one to a software synth and one to a hardware synth by selecting different channels or setting up different virtual midi ports.

The other key difference is the Tau has a flat keyboard while the Alpha's is slightly rounded.

Hope this helps.

Randy


written by: tenorjazz

Mon, 3 Jun 2013 22:01:36 +0100 BST

I actually have 5 hardware synths I would like to be able to control.

Dave mentioned that by default there are 2 midi outs, but if I use an 4 or 8 port midi interface in my setup is there some way to bump up the number of instruments I could support?

I'm guessing that if I can sync with Ableton then Ableton could drive all the midi instruments and I would use the Tau as the midi controller, depending on which Ableton channel I have selected. Does that sound about right??

Since I am mainly a sax/keyboard player I visualize the Tau could be my only midi controller and I could pair that up with all the things that EigenD can do, creating a very powerful composition and performance instrument.


written by: TheTechnobear

Mon, 3 Jun 2013 23:37:06 +0100 BST

yes, it has 2 midi outs in the factory setups.
but EigenD is highly configurable, so this can be changed, and you can create your own setups with more outputs.
Realistically to do this, you will need Workbench (and so EigenD Pro), and how easy you will find this will depend upon your background. Of course the further you stray from the factory setup, the more you will need to learn about EigenD.
But theres always someone around to answer questions and help out.


written by: tenorjazz

Tue, 4 Jun 2013 17:48:43 +0100 BST

A few more questions:

1. I'm still not clear as to if you can use the Eigenharp just as a midi controller. I'm composing in Sibelius and figure it might be a really good tool to enter notes. I'm also using Digital Performer as a DAW and it would be great if I could use the Eigenharp as my main controller for that.

2. Tell me more about the Basestation Pro. How is it better than the standard Basestation? When will it be available to the US?

3. Do I understand correctly that the Tau does not come with a breath pipe so I have to order that separately?

4. One video I saw mentions a "cello leg" that can be attached to the bottom of the instrument. I don't see that in the accessories. Is it still available?



written by: MarkPowell

Tue, 4 Jun 2013 19:40:13 +0100 BST


1. I'm still not clear as to if you can use the Eigenharp just as a midi controller. I'm composing in Sibelius and figure it might be a really good tool to enter notes. I'm also using Digital Performer as a DAW and it would be great if I could use the Eigenharp as my main controller for that.
You can indeed. If you're only controlling software on the same machine then you need a virtual midi input. If you're on a Mac this is built-in functionality; on a Windows PC then you'd need a utility like LoopBe, which is about 15 pounds.
If you want to control midi hardware then you'd need a midi output on your computer. Otherwise you're good.

2. Tell me more about the Basestation Pro. How is it better than the standard Basestation? When will it be available to the US?
It has footswitch controls that aren't on the normal Basestation. It also has midi ports and an i2c port, but neither are functional due to not being supported by the firmware. In addition, the Basestation pro has a built in power supply, which Eigenlabs have said they'll struggle to afford the US regulatory approval for, hence them having no plans to make the Pro available in the US again.

3. Do I understand correctly that the Tau does not come with a breath pipe so I have to order that separately?
If buying new then yes, that's correct.

4. One video I saw mentions a "cello leg" that can be attached to the bottom of the instrument. I don't see that in the accessories. Is it still available?
My understanding is that they've sold out, but I don't know whether there's any intention to make another batch.

Hope this helps, but feel free to ask if you need anything clarifying.

Cheers,
Mark.


written by: john

Tue, 4 Jun 2013 19:47:50 +0100 BST

- You can use the Eigenharp as a MIDI controller, it has a software MIDI out which is highly configurable. On a Mac this is supported by the operating system and just works, on Windows you need a third party bit of software to transport MIDI between applications. People seem to find that LoopBe (the paid version) works well.

- The Basestation Pro has additional inputs for pedals and can read continuous control expression pedals, which can be very useful. It also has a mains supply built in, so no 'Wall-Wart' is required. It is unlikely to ever be available in the US as the US has a very stupid electrical regulatory framework that is extremely expensive to comply with and subtly (as in just enough to require two sets of fees to be paid) different from Europe. If you write to us and promise to never turn it on or connect it to the mains we will send one to the US, but it is entirely at your own risk as it is not UL approved. It is fully CE tested and approved of course, which in many ways is a more stringent set of tests, but this is apparently not enough for the relevant bureaucracy. .

- Yes, you need to add the breath pipe as an accessory if you want one

- The 'Cello spike for the Tau is currently not in production. We'd like to make some more but (and this is hard to believe) we are having trouble finding one of the tools (an expensive extrusion die for aluminum) that is required. None of the people who were involved in its manufacture will own up to possessing it, which is annoying, to put it mildly. If we find it we will make another batch, but I cannot promise that that will happen soon.

I hope that helps.

John


written by: MarkPowell

Tue, 4 Jun 2013 20:03:41 +0100 BST

Having just read back what I've written, I just want to clarify on the MIDI controller front. To be clear, an Eigenharp (of any 'flavour') will not work as a MIDI controller in its own right - you can't just plug it into a synth and start playing. What it will do though is output MIDI from EigenD, which is the Eigenharp software that runs on your computer. As such, the net effect is exactly the same as if you had a (very configurable, extremely sensitive!) USB-only MIDI keyboard plugged into your computer, but the key thing is you have to be running the EigenD software for it to output MIDI. If this sounds complicated it really isn't; I personally do something that sounds similar to what you talked about in your first post. I have a MIDI-only EigenD setup that loads in about 10 seconds and feeds notes into Ableton Live, which I use for recording and sequencing using the Eigenharp and a home-made foot controller. I use the Eigenharp itself to select which scale to play in and which MIDI channel etc I want to sent to, and then have Live hosting VSTs and AU's to make the sound, handle the recording, levels, effects, etc.

As an aside, since you mentioned the APC40, I'm currently in the process of writing some Ableton MIDI Control Surface scripts to run a clip-launcher, track arm/mute/solo controls, transport controls, etc., all with visual feedback on the Eigenharp itself. This is still very much a work in progress, but the guts of it is now working, so keep an eye on the Eigenharp Google Plus community if this is of interest. The progress I've made so far is in no small part down to the help I've had from the people on that group, a couple of which have posted already on this thread. I've posted a bit of info on G+, but will shortly (I hope!) be posting more detail and, if I can get it working, a video demonstration of work so far.

Thanks,
Mark.


written by: MarkPowell

Tue, 4 Jun 2013 20:01:07 +0100 BST

:-) @john

Snap!


written by: geert

Tue, 4 Jun 2013 22:27:14 +0100 BST

Quick remark, I found that the CopperLan manager software or loopMIDI are much better than LoopBe and are available at no charge. CopperLan's virtual MIDI even is for commercial use.

http://www.copperlan.org/index.php/download
http://www.tobias-erichsen.de/software/loopmidi.html


written by: tenorjazz

Tue, 4 Jun 2013 23:12:09 +0100 BST

Back in the early 90's I saw Jon Anderson, from Yes and Kitaro did a very limted tour of about 5 cities. I was lucky enough to see them when they came through Seattle, Washington. I mention this because Jon was playin an instrument made by Atari called a Hotz (still available, google JImmy Hotz). It was a controller that was way ahead of it's time and allowed you to do amazing things with it. Another instrument that I actully owed for a while was a Chapman Stick. I had often thought about the idea that if you could combine these two instruments you would have possibly one of the coolest instruments on the planet.

I just found out about the Eigenharp a couple of weeks ago and there it is, better than I could have imaged. I can't wait to get hold of one!!!

Thanks for all the great information. Now as soon as I can sell 5 of my current synths and a car (seriously!!), I will be able to afford my Eigenhap.


written by: mikemilton

Wed, 5 Jun 2013 20:48:48 +0100 BST

Hi, Tenorjazz... As all have said, any eigenharp can be made into a MIDI controller.

One additional consideration is that, particularly for HW synths using MIDI DIN jacks, it is possible to send entirely too much data. The solution for this is a setting within EigenD called decimation. If you are not using certain streams of data (like pitch and yaw) you might want to either not send them or filter them using the MIDI interconnection SW you choose. Not only do they increase the traffic, but they make for a very dense MIDI stream that can be more difficult to edit.


written by: Info@sublimebuild.com

Sun, 1 Sep 2013 16:31:51 +0100 BST

It would seem that the flat surface of the tau has two advantages over the alpha. The first being that the fingers have less distance to travel to reach another key. As the path is in a straight line rather than a curve which is longer. And that it is conceptually easier to remember the locations of a key in a flat plane rather than in a curved plane (which is effectively 3 dimensions).

An advantage of the alpha is that it has more keys so you can play a greater range of notes without transposing down or up octaves. If the alpha had a flat surface possibly it might be easier to learn. The designers must have thought long about the layouts. I wonder why they choose a curved layout?


written by: dhjdhj

Sun, 1 Sep 2013 20:56:16 +0100 BST

I'm not convinced that's true. First of all, the curve isn't that much. Secondly, you're ultimately depending on muscle memory to remember key locations. Technically a curved plane is still two dimensions as each location can described by two coordinates.

As a matter of comfort, I think it is easier to hold entire rows down when the plane is curved as your fingers will naturally curl slightly as well. Any guitarist learning their first bar chord can attest to that -:)


written by: john

Mon, 2 Sep 2013 14:59:52 +0100 BST

The radius on the Alpha keyboard was a carefully designed and corresponds to the radius produced by the ends of your fingers as you rotate your wrist. It makes the keyboard more comfortable, natural and less fatiguing to play. We spent a lot of time in the design of the Eigenharps considering RSI type injuries, which plague musicians who play lot. A major part of any good teacher's work is showing pupils how to avoid such injuries through good technique, and we considered it to also be a major part of designing an instrument in the first place. We trialled a lot of different radii to get to the one in use now.

The Alpha keyboard is actually a manufacturing nightmare to produce, and probably adds a good £700 to the cost of the instrument. It means we have to manufacture a very stiff curved alloy support frame, which requires a lot of expensive CNC time. The engineering requirements on this frame are high as if it's not stiff enough the keys crosstalk when played, and this causes all sorts of bad things to happen. We tried an awful lot of other (cheaper) techniques to try and produce this part (composites, plastics, etched metal epoxy laminates) before realising that CNC was the way we had to do it. After four years of experiments we were pretty sure that we'd exhausted all the other options, and luckily during that 4 years CNC had got a lot cheaper and bought it within the 'just affordable' range for the part. Nowdays it's directly machined out of a solid block of alloy, in much the same style as the Apple unibody laptop cases are today.

The radius also means that each individual course of keys has to have it's own circuit board, which adds a lot of cost on as well, both in PCB manufacture (and 24 Eigenkeys long is 2cm too long for most standard PCB process equipment, just to add inconvenience and cost) and component cost dealing with the communications between boards.

Because of these costs we made an early decision to limit the Tau design to 4 courses and make it flat. Because it's narrower we get away without the radius and it turned out surprisingly comfortable to play in the end. We'd have preferred to give it a radius, but it would have been much too expensive. You wouldn't want the Alpha to be flat, we tried that and it's not nearly as nice, it's just a bit too wide.

Oddly, the flat design ended up also having a nicely different aesthetic, one we all liked as a good contrast to the Alpha's more organic look. It also feels quite different to play, nice but in a different way to the Alpha. And as a side benefit (one that did enter the design process and encouraged us to keep working on a flat design) it can also be laid flat and played more like a piano should you wish, even along the top of an existing keyboard if a keys player wants to be able to reach for some extra expressivity without getting up.

John


written by: tenorjazz

Mon, 2 Sep 2013 13:53:00 +0100 BST

I think the Alpha is one of the most beautiful, well crafted instruments I have ever seen and I think the curved surface is a major contributor to that beauty and the workmenship appears to be second to none. The fact that the curve also makes it more comfortable to play makes it even more appealing. If there was any way, I would get an Alpha, but it is just beyond my price range. I have, however, scraped enough money together to get a Tau and hopefully it will be completed soon and be on it's way.

I have great respect for John's none compromising approach. I'm a craftsman (potter) and composer I try to do the same in my work. It is the way I wish people would approach their lives.


written by: Info@sublimebuild.com

Fri, 6 Sep 2013 02:20:00 +0100 BST

Thanks for your replies on the flat surface of the Tau vs the curved surface of the Alpha. Given that the optimum surface is a curve if you are playing the instrument nearly vertically infront of you (for say a live performance). Maybe if you are learning on a Tau it would be easier to learn it flat and horizontal like a piano or computer keyboard.

A quick view of the youtube shows some tau and pico played flat. This seems good if you are in a studio (like I am) creating music. Then you can use your muscle memory with the Tau fixed in one place horizontally and you can use the same fingerings for chords in different keys.

Also you could even combine two taus to get a larger range than the Alpha in octaves. By putting one tau in front of and next to the other. A downside of this is you couldnt use the breathpipe in the factory form.

Are there any reading that have had experience with playing the tau horizontally and what were your thoughts on learning to play it this way.


written by: mikemilton

Fri, 6 Sep 2013 14:26:55 +0100 BST

@sublimebuild. You mention in your profile that you want to provide accompaniment for your wife's singing. Any of these instruments would be ideal for that. I suspect you would be much happier with the harness or strap and playing while standing for that use. At home, an open mic night or other venue, this makes for a much more appealing performance.

This thread is interesting. In part, because it includes both the idea of using an Eigenharp in a studio context or performance. As the answers suggest, it works for both as well as for 'hybrid' situations where a person might use (for one example) Live to provide parts of a performance.


written by: tenorjazz

Fri, 27 Sep 2013 06:37:25 +0100 BST

My Tau came today. When I first got it I thought it was damaged because there were 3 hole punched into the box along the edge. The case looked OK when I opened it and whatever punctured the box missed the case.

I got all the software installed and began working through the tutorials.

At first I was having trouble changing from one instrument to the next. I had to push the buttons a whole bunch of times for it to work. Had the same problem every time I tried to do something with the modes. The all of a sudden everything began to work as expected. Not sure what changed, but it all seems to be working now.

Changing scales, changing instruments,

Began running scales to begin to get the fingers working so just beginning to jump on the learning curve.

I'm excited!!!



Please log in to join the discussions