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Software: 2.0.68 setup load time

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written by: geert

Yes, I think it's very straightforward. I actually started using other software for my guitar stuff first and it ended up way more complex and much less functional.

written by: carvingCode

Sat, 6 Oct 2012 17:52:10 +0100 BST

Looks like a good one. Stable.

I'm wondering if any thought has been put into whether current setup load times are excessive for playing live? I experience between 1:04 to 1:55 to load setups. Although I'm not currently playing out, these are all the types setups I imagine one would use live (especially as a solo artist), i.e.: drum loops, multiple AU/VSTs, some with/without audio effects and/or Arranger.

Any thoughts?


[ iMac 2.7 GHz Core i5 w/ 12GB RAM ]

written by: dhjdhj

Sat, 6 Oct 2012 19:38:00 +0100 BST

This startup time used to drive me crazy but once I went to a setup that supports only OSC and LED control, startup time is about 1 second....much better -:)
I do all the other stuff (drum loops, synths and effects) elsewhere

written by: geert

Sat, 6 Oct 2012 20:24:44 +0100 BST

The loading of the setup is only very long in the 'do everything' factory setups. I personally built my own setup which has none of the advanced configuration sections and no samplers. All the rest is heavily customised also in terms of key layout and such, but it loads in 10 seconds or so, including all the AUs and VSTs. It's during the set up of those advanced on-instrument configuration sections and during the loading of the samplers that EigenD takes a long time.

written by: carvingCode

Sun, 7 Oct 2012 00:19:29 +0100 BST

My setups have samplers, clarinet and cello removed. I did remove the advanced configuration for those items. I'm currently building my setups from a paired down version of factory. Probably should break down and build from scratch.

Will look at what else i could remove to help speed things up.

@dhjdhj - Great load time!

written by: carvingCode

Sun, 7 Oct 2012 14:29:36 +0100 BST

What about the time to change from one setup to another? There is a long time spent at the "Preparing" stage prior to the loading of the new setup.

Any way this can be reduced?


written by: keyman

Sun, 7 Oct 2012 15:43:34 +0100 BST

I'm not bothered at all with long loading times, nor in rehearsals or in a live stage setup.
Bigger setup, lots of cables/connections, agents - increase of loading time (perfectly normal) - in a live situation just schedule the order of "to do's", start with the MBP and all connections to it and leave running the outrageous long setup. When you finishing everything else it's ready to rock!

Smaller setup's for everyday usage, and i'm sure in other situations there is always some time spend in web browsing or social networks one can leave a setup running.

Leave a trick, if in the same machine, save the setup with at least one AU window open, when upon loading it back, that same window opening is a sing of almost complete loading! or a loop plying...
voilá, scale time!

written by: carvingCode

Sun, 7 Oct 2012 16:03:06 +0100 BST

A minute or more between songs in a live set is not a good thing.

written by: geert

Sun, 7 Oct 2012 16:55:31 +0100 BST

CarvingCode, we've spent quite a long time trying to optimize loading times from scratch and between setups as much as possible. Due to the nature of EigenD, the flexibilities of the setups and the interdependencies of agents, the incremental loading times need a lot of dependency checking before being able to switch. The processing overhead is partly due to each agent having a Python wrapper, there's a long term plan to remove this wrappers and go towards more C++, which should have a favorable impact of loading times. There's no ETA for that though.

However, for live performance it's generally a very bad idea to dynamically load and unload AU/VST plugins as it's the single most fragile step in the process and it's the cause of the most bugs and crashes in any plugin host. This is for instance the reason that Apple Mainstage preloads all the AUs in the project. As such, for live performance it's generally much better to have one setup with everything that you might use and switch by either using different instruments in EigenD or by sending program changes to the plugins. One thing you really don't want to have happen, is a plugin that crashes your system in the middle of a set since there's a bug in its loading logic or because something critical is missing.

I'm using a good fifteen AU plugins in my setup and combine that with program changes. The setup loads quite quickly and I know that it'll remain stable throughout the whole performance. Even with the factory setups though, a loading time of two minutes really is much less than any other setup you'll have to do to start playing. I just let EigenD launch automatically when my computer starts and then forget about it. Once I'm ready connecting all the other stuff up, it has loaded since ages.

written by: keyman

Sun, 7 Oct 2012 17:03:30 +0100 BST

You don't need to change setups in each and every song!!

I'm working hard on this topic "Changing things"
- ways to change what's there to change...

My opinion is we have the best tools of all; Belcanto!
Careful planing ahead, laying out everything - scripts run by talkers and more talkers or some "outside help" (ex. STAGE running scripts), of course there are limits, but then again, limits are everywhere and I don't take them at first approach.

written by: carvingCode

Mon, 8 Oct 2012 15:51:01 +0100 BST

OK, guys. I am trying to understand this. Would help to see an example setup in Workbench.

written by: geert

Tue, 9 Oct 2012 09:32:25 +0100 BST

Hi CarvinCode,

Here's a screenshot of my current setup that I use with my band Flytecase, I also opened the talker editor that shows actions being triggered off of program changes coming in from an external MIDI foot pedal.

This setup is responsible for my electric guitar sounds, for my MIDI guitar instruments and for the Eigenharp Alpha. It contains about 12 audio units and loads very quickly. I'm still growing it gradually as we elaborate our new show, but it's quite close to what I imagine it being in the end. The only thing missing really is to change audio unit programs within the same plugin from a talker, I'm doing that already in another setup though, so I know it works well. The Belcanto for that can be found at the bottom of this wiki page:

Finally, it's also set up to feed back a mix from the band to the headphone output of my Alpha so that I can plug my in-ears directly in the Eigenharp. This is coming out of virtual channels in my Metric Halo audio interface and then summed together with what I'm playing on the Eigenharp in EigenD, to get the best possible latency.

Hope this helps,


written by: carvingCode

Tue, 9 Oct 2012 16:37:04 +0100 BST

Thanks, Geert.

That actually looks relatively simple, i.e.: no rigs, fewer wires, etc.

But I'm glad you shared this as it gives me a better understanding of what you and Antonio are up to.

written by: geert

Tue, 9 Oct 2012 19:31:21 +0100 BST

Yes, I think it's very straightforward. I actually started using other software for my guitar stuff first and it ended up way more complex and much less functional.

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