Forum Archive

Hello.

Eigenlabs has mentioned that it plans on open sourcing it's software. I read in an interview that John was reading about different open source licenses over the christmas break in order to decide which license to use.

As an open source developer for 10 years, I have some experience with different licenses and opinions about them. In my opinion, in the case of Eigenlabs, the choice is obvious: Since the software is useless without the Eigenharp hardware, and the goal of Eigenlabs is to maximize sales of the Eigenharp hardware, Eigenlabs should choose the most permissive license possible: Either MIT or BSD (which are basically equivalent nowadays.)

Any less permissive license has no benefit, and only confuses the issue by forcing people to read legalese and decide whether they are comfortable being bound by it's terms or not. Since the software is directly tied to the hardware, the strategy which maximizes users of the software maximizes sales of the hardware (== $).

Here is someone else who has the same opinion, along with many intelligent comments, some with dissenting viewpoints:

http://yehudakatz.com/2010/01/05/the-maximal-usage-doctrine-for-open-source/

I love the pico, and think that these instruments have the potential to be huge successes. It's obvious from the forums that the biggest limitation currently is the EigenD software. This is understandable since it is developed by a small number of people, and the community has a wide range of opinions on how the software should work. As it stands, the software is the achilles heel of the otherwise stellar Eigenlabs hardware. I encourage you to let us help you, by open sourcing the software as soon as possible! Let a thousand flowers bloom, and the cream of the crop will rise to the top through survival of the fittest. This is how open source works.

Donovan

Hi Donovan,

Great post. I've talked about exactly the same thoughts and conclusions with John when I was in London a few weeks ago. I think it's not that clear cut since while EigenD might seem crude on the surface, the underlying engine is actually very advanced and technically innovative. If I understood John correctly they've spent a long time researching various 'inventions' that they don't want to see 'stolen' by big names.

As you say, you've got a history in open source (same as me, started with installing slackware from floppy) and when everything is created in open-source MIT or BSD is clear for wide adoption. However when technology has been developed with money from external investments and stakeholders, this isn't always possible without guaranteeing some kind of commercial OEM license or attribution scheme.

The open-source company I currently work at (http://terracotta.org) does something similar with a modified version of the MPL. Without that it would be too easy for competitors like Oracle and IBM to run away and resell the work that was paid for by the money of Terracotta investors.

It's not always as easy as it looks, but I do agree that they should open-source soon so that we can start lending a hand.

Take care,

Geert

Certain concerns about 'inventions' being stolen should be addressed via patents where applicable. Im not convinced there is much code that is worth stealing.

Im more interested in eigen hardware playing nicely with a wider ecosystem, rather than being its own anarchic slightly crazy universe. So in this regard I am more interested in an open protocol for messages coming to and from the pico & alpha, than getting access to the current EigenD code, although the latter could of course lead to the former if the talent, vision and time is out there.

Yes I agree there is a bit of a catch 22 with regards other software makers including eigen support in their apps, not enough owners of the hardware to justify it yet. Its very interesting to consider what might happen in future, eg whether any protocols get used by non-eigen hardware instruments in future, thus becoming a potential successor to midi. Ive always thought it sad but understandable that more experimental instruments have not been manufactured in recent decades, and I salute eigenlabs for having a go.

As for patents and opensource and what exactly eigenlabs may want to protect/keep as their own, its certainly interesting and their is scope for much joy but also for some bad mistakes to be made. Its no secret from past posts of mine that I am not afraid to speculate, and also that I am not a huge fan of the design or implementation of the software as it stands right now. It sounded a bit cruel when I doubted that there was much code worth stealing, what I meant was that if there is anything worth copying, it is ideas, paradigms etc rather than the underlying code. If I am wrong about the paradigms being wonky, then other people copying them is actually a sign of success for eigenlabs vision. If I am right, then people will want opensource so they can override these concepts and do something else with the hardware. Either way things need to open up and I would have thought twice about buying the Pico in the first place if I had not read an interview with John where he spoke of a relatively open future. All the same it remains to be seen quite how far eigenlabs will feel comfortable with taking the open approach, and I can sometimes be nervous about this.

For now I am more than happy to wait a little longer to get to stage 2, where we have scripting and workbench and it everything will become much clearer in regards to how much flexibility we users will have, how well the system can work etc. Im hoping that by the end of January some of the EigenD teething problems have been sorted and then more of the potential can be unlocked. So whilst I have high expectations and hopes for the medium & long term, my rants should not be interpreted as expecting too much in the shortterm.