Forum Archive

Forum

Pico: Performance Scale Switching

Most Recent

written by: chad

Perhaps the Pico could be set to Studio Mode or Performance Mode.

In Studio Mode, the set-ups could be completely configured with mouse clicks from EigenD. In Performance Mode, everything is configured from the instrument. It is likely that as players become more proficient then Performance Mode would be used with greater frequency or if silent changes were required for in session instrument or scale changes.

A side benefit from the Studio Mode in the EigenD software could be the use of small pictograms to show the key sequence required to make the change with the instrument. If very small pictograms, like Geert uses on the videos, are two difficult to read, then perhaps a chess notation could be used to show sequences:

R4, L5 (RIght 4 then Left 5)
ML2 (Main mode and Left 2)
Perhaps there are other ways to show nested menus such as
R1, l4, ML2 (Right 1 the sub menu Left 4 then Main mode Left 2)

written by: mzappile

Mon, 7 Dec 2009 15:45:40 +0000 GMT

I've been playing my Pico for a week, and I had a thought about using the Pico in
an actual performance environment.

One of the things that could make the Pico more playable in the context of a song is the ability
to switch to pre-determined scales and new tonics in a toggle-able sequence. Perhaps using the
ribbon-side scroll key. This is similar to how you can switch a sequence of patches on a synthesizer during a live performance.

This way, before starting a song, you can choose that "setup" for that song, and not have to worry about a series of 3-4 keystrokes, just a simple toggle to get the right scale and tonic for the next musical passage you are playing.

Also, could this kind of interaction be set up using the upcoming workbench?

Anyway, just a thought.

-Matt Z


written by: john

Mon, 7 Dec 2009 16:00:32 +0000 GMT

Hi Matt

The best way to do this is to set up a MIDI footboard to change scales and tonics - it works really well. I'll try and get a Pico setup made for this in the next couple of weeks.

John


written by: geert

Mon, 7 Dec 2009 16:29:03 +0000 GMT

It think would actually be more useful to be able to use a MIDI footswitch to change the actual setups that are loaded in EigenD, hence switching scales, tonics, instruments, loops, .... without having to touch the computer.


written by: steveelbows

Mon, 7 Dec 2009 16:52:05 +0000 GMT

I probably made a similar point in another thread about software design. There is probably some devil in the detail, eg sometimes you might want to flip between scales, tonics & octaves that you have setup earlier, but not change loops, other times you might want a more complete change of setup. And I doubt either of these fit brilliantly with the way EigenD works now, or at least Im yet to see any indication from Eigenlabs that such things are in the pipeline or are trivial for them to implement.

Certainly I would be in heaven if I could just press a key to flip though instruments, scales, tonics & octaves I had set earlier, or hold down the mode key and press a key to recall such a preset. Alternatively if I could get the presses of certain keys out from EigenD via midi or OSC then I could take care of this sort of thing by hacking together software to do scale etc changes to the midi coming from playing the pico, eg by using max4live.

I do find it interesting to consider how practical such changes to behaviour are for Eigenlabs to implement, how wedded they will remain to the assumptions that were present before lots of people got their hands on a pico, whether all of these issues can be solved by tweaking how things work now or bolting on functionality as opposed to having a more radical rethink, how much I will be able to do via scripting, what will happen when the software is opensourced, etc. I think some of the issues are a bit tricky, some may be solved by the plan eigenlabs already has, and clearly they are keen to listen to users which is great, but I dont expect instant miracles, so I play the wait and see game.


written by: mzappile

Mon, 7 Dec 2009 16:55:52 +0000 GMT

Actually both options would be useful (in my opinion) because it does take a bit of time to load
a whole set-up (at least in my experience), and that might not be an option in the middle of a song that just needs a quick key change.

But in between songs, or at rests, the setup switch on the footboard would be very helpful as well :-)

I still think, however, footswtiching the scales and tonics on the fly without the need of loading a whole setup would have its advantages.

-Matt Z


written by: geert

Mon, 7 Dec 2009 16:57:18 +0000 GMT

True, both approaches would be useful.


written by: john

Mon, 7 Dec 2009 18:11:25 +0000 GMT

Setups are not timely to load - in musical terms they take an appreciable time. Changing scale, tonic with a talker (one of the orange lit keys) etc happens in one audio frame, less than 5 milliseconds, which is what you want when you're playing. Loading a different setup is always going to take much longer than this, and behaviour might not be entirely predictable while you change either - the changing of different aspects of the system to match the new setup is not ordered in any particular way (and if you think about it, it would be a very difficult to make this work well).

There's actually no reason at all that we couldn't set individual keys (or incoming MIDI notes from a pedalboard) to load or save a given setup though- it can be setup by one of our musicians for you if you want, although I'm not sure how useful it would be in reality.

I was thinking about adding a talker to the Pico factory setup triggered with MIDI notes that do a wide variety of things - changing the scales, tonics etc. We could add recalling User Setups 1 - 10 to this if you think it might be useful..

John


written by: geert

Mon, 7 Dec 2009 18:33:49 +0000 GMT

Thanks for the info John, for me personally I'll wait until I get access to the Workbench to set something like this up myself. I already did something similar in Bidule for my live electric and midi guitar setup and it took quite a bit of fine tuning indeed.


written by: catoro

Mon, 7 Dec 2009 19:54:39 +0000 GMT

I agree with Geert...


written by: chad

Wed, 9 Dec 2009 07:36:54 +0000 GMT

Perhaps the Pico could be set to Studio Mode or Performance Mode.

In Studio Mode, the set-ups could be completely configured with mouse clicks from EigenD. In Performance Mode, everything is configured from the instrument. It is likely that as players become more proficient then Performance Mode would be used with greater frequency or if silent changes were required for in session instrument or scale changes.

A side benefit from the Studio Mode in the EigenD software could be the use of small pictograms to show the key sequence required to make the change with the instrument. If very small pictograms, like Geert uses on the videos, are two difficult to read, then perhaps a chess notation could be used to show sequences:

R4, L5 (RIght 4 then Left 5)
ML2 (Main mode and Left 2)
Perhaps there are other ways to show nested menus such as
R1, l4, ML2 (Right 1 the sub menu Left 4 then Main mode Left 2)



Please log in to join the discussions